Gospel-centered Parenting: Bruce & Maria Goff

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FamilyLife Today® with Dave and Ann Wilson; Podcast Transcript

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Gospel-centered Parenting

Guests:Bruce & Maria Goff

Release Date:December 4, 2025

Ann (00:00):

Have your kids brought out a side to you that you had no idea was in there?

Maria (00:06):

Yeah, for sure.

Ann (00:07):

I had no idea this anger was inside of me or frustration, pride—

Dave (00:15):

All the things I tried to point out to her—the kids revealed.

Ann (00:19):

—showed me, but it was like it made me needy for Jesus because I’m seeing a whole new side of me that’s not pretty at all. And I thought, “Who am I?”

We’ve got Bruce and Maria Goff with us today that have four daughters.

Dave:

How old are they?

Bruce (00:37):

Nine—you say.

Maria (00:39):

Nine, almost 10—

Dave (00:41):

Wait, wait, wait. They’re not that old. You’re struggling to remember their ages.

Maria (00:43):

Sorry. I’m tired. I’m very tired. We have an almost 10-year-old, an almost 7-year-old, a 4-year-old and a nine-month-old baby.

Ann (00:54):

Maria, Okay, is there anything that’s come out that you’re like, “Wow.”

Maria (01:00):

When you were saying that I was actually thinking I already had a temper problem before I had kids and I knew it. I knew this was a struggle for me.

Bruce (01:07):

This was just another—

Maria (01:08):

But the kids just ratcheted up to another level like, “Oh, you really, really are an angry person.”

Dave (01:16):

I mean, Bruce, what’s that look like? Maria is not going to tell on herself.

Bruce (01:21):

It looks like a saint who—

Ann (01:23):

That’s a good answer.

Maria (01:26):

No, you can be honest.

Bruce:

No, I mean, you do have the Holy Spirit working patience in you, no doubt about it.

Maria:

Sometimes.

Bruce:

And my mom sees it better than I do. My mom will say, “I can’t believe how patient you are.” So there’s definitely that.

(01:38):

I mean, I see it in myself. You were gone the other day for a lunch thing, and then you also were babysitting for someone else, so you were gone most of the day. So I had the girls. And when you got back, I was like, “We got to figure something out. I was being such a jerk to the kids, and I don’t want to be that guy.”

Ann (01:57):

Yeah, what’s that look like? Because

Bruce (01:59):

They just either don’t listen or they are careless. And I was getting so impatient with them and just being short and harsh with—I had to apologize to them like three times. “Guys, I’m so sorry. I was being harsh. I shouldn’t be harsh.” Fast forward an hour, “Hey guys, I’m so sorry I was harsh.”

Ann (02:20):

Well, that’s good you’re apologizing. But Maria just said, “But the number one thing.”

Bruce:

But the number one, what were you going to say?

Maria (02:26):

The number one thing. They leave things on the floor. They don’t pick up after themselves.

Ann (02:30):

So they’re children.

Maria (02:30):

Everywhere they go it’s like a trail of stuff.

Bruce (02:35):

Pillows from the couch. They just sit on the couch and then I don’t see it, but they must just be like, “That’s where that goes.”

Ann:

Just drop it on the floor.

Bruce:

I’m like, “Why is it every time you sit on the couch, the pillows are on the floor and then you just leave?” And then—

Dave (02:48):

What do you say to the parent listening right now that says, “Well, that’s your fault. You didn’t train them to pick up those pillows and put them back and those toys back in their bin.”

Bruce (02:56):

That’s part of it. I mean, I think that’s a legitimate part, right?

Dave:

I don’t think that’s what Maria was going to say.

Maria (03:02):

I say yes, but that takes time. And for the little ones who are only four, you’ve been working on it for a long time, they forget and they are too busy doing what they’re doing.

Ann (03:16):

They’re kids.

Bruce:

They’re acting like a 4-year-old.

Maria (03:19):

And as many times as you tell them to pick up after themselves, they still don’t.

Bruce (03:24):

Dave, I think that’s a good point though, because, okay, so we’re talking about two things here. One, okay, I have an unreasonable expectation of tidiness, but then also, yeah, how much of that is, yeah, that’s your job to parent them and to help them do that. So it’s like I’m confronted with one, they’re kids, and so I’m confronted with my sin of just like I want everything my way. And then two, that’s showing my lack of parenting them well, and now I’m reaping what I’ve sown or not sown.

Maria (03:55):

It also shows—

Ann:

No.

Bruce (03:56):

Okay, maybe I’m wrong.

Ann (03:57):

That’s not a lack of parenting.

Bruce:

Well, okay, maybe not.

Maria (04:00):

It also shows the overabundance of stuff that they’re required to manage.

Bruce (04:05):

Most of which we didn’t buy for them.

Maria:

True.

Dave (04:07):

Well, one of the things we thought we’d talk about is this interesting quote from a friend of ours, Dan Allender. He was on our FamilyLife speaker team for a few years back in the day, so we got to know Dan. He’s a deep thinker, counselor, theologian, and he said one of the biggest sources of conflict between you and your child is when they refuse to bow down to your idols.

Bruce (04:30):

Okay, read that one more time.

Dave (04:31):

That’s an interesting quote—

Ann (04:33):

Read it again, Dave, because it is really good.

Dave (04:35):

One of the biggest sources of conflict between you and your child, between you and your kids is when they refuse to bow down to your idols. So do you have idols as parents? Is yours, things picked up and neat?

Bruce (04:50):

I think mine’s control. I think probably at the base of its control, which is new to me since we had our marriage counseling a few years ago.

Dave:

What do you mean?

Bruce:

The counselor was just so blunt to me saying it’s because I was saying, “I think the reason I’m like that is this and that,” and he says, “No, Bruce, you’re like that because you want to be in control.” I was like, “I’m paying you.”

Dave:

Maria’s like “Yay!”

Bruce:

“What are you talking about? I mean, maybe, but no, I don’t think so. Let me tell you why.” I’ll tell you counselor why I’m doing it.

Dave:

Was he right?

Bruce:

Oh, 100% right, yeah. So I think probably at the root of mine, my idol is control. I want the house to always look like no one lives there.

Ann (05:31):

Because it makes you feel better.

Bruce (05:33):

Yeah, and then I can relax. I’m like, if you’re messing it up, I can’t relax.

Maria (05:37):

Do you think maybe at the root of all of our idols is control?

Bruce:

Possibly

Maria:

Sin.

Bruce (05:42):

Pride, yeah.

Maria (05:44):

Pride and control.

Bruce (05:44):

Yeah. This is about me. The world revolves around me.

Maria (05:47):

I want to be my own God.

Bruce (05:50):

Yeah, probably

Maria (05:51):

Ultimately.

Ann (05:53):

Okay, it’s confession time. What about you, Maria?

Bruce (05:54):

Yeah, what’s your—

Ann:

What’s your idol?

Bruce:

Let’s talk that for a little bit.

Maria (05:57):

I mean, I think at the base of mine is also control. I want things to go the way that I envision them going, and I want sleep. And when that doesn’t happen, I turn into a monster.

Ann (06:12):

So that would be control.

Maria (06:13):

Yeah.

Dave (06:14):

What’s yours?

Ann:

I think just looking back on when the kids were little, mine was image. If they’re not performing, if they’re not acting, if they’re not doing something in a way that reflects a good light on me but reflects poorly on me, that bothered me.

Bruce (06:35):

You experienced, I mean, not to point fingers, but we have an example of that, right? Just the other day when the neighbor was talking to you.

Maria (06:44):

Yes, yes.

Bruce (06:45):

What happened?

Maria (06:46):

A neighbor came across the street, and the girls had been playing, and she came over to tell me that her daughter had said that Gloria was being mean to her and had left her out.

Bruce (06:57):

Gloria, our daughter.

Maria (06:57):

I automatically, I just had a visceral reaction. I’m like, “What did she say?” I just got immediately upset and she was saying she didn’t want her to go to the park. I’m like, “Well, our number one rule”—and I was just like all of a sudden just—

Bruce (07:11):

Reiterating to her.

Maria (07:12):

—like so mad. “Our number one rule is never leave anybody out and you let me know if this happens again.” And I’m laying it on thick to Gloria when we went inside, “You don’t ever treat anybody like that.” And then I realized, why is this making me, why am I having such a strong reaction to this? And it was really because I felt like, no, my kid’s not going to be the one leaving people out. That’s not my kid. And it was more a reflection of me than I was upset that they were sinning.

Dave (07:44):

Hey, real quick, I just wanted to remind you that this is a special time of year to give to FamilyLife because every gift is being matched through the end of the year. Do you hear that? Every gift matched through the end of the year, and that means your support goes twice as far to share God’s hope with families everywhere. So don’t miss the opportunity to double your impact today. To give just visit FamilyLifeToday.com or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY. That’s 1-800-FL-TODAY. Okay, let’s get back to the conversation.

Ann (08:18):

Well, I can remember too, I think our oldest at the time was 18 months old, and I come from a real, very performance-oriented family.

Dave (08:27):

Yes, she does.

Ann (08:29):

I remember my mom having that outgoing personality, funny, more extroverted was always a value in our family. I was that, but I remember our youngest was super introverted, very, even as a baby, you could see it. He just wasn’t friendly to other people, shy, and my mom would always say, “He’s just different, isn’t he?” Instead of just, I said, “Well, yeah, it’s—he’s who God made him to be.” But then I’d go to bed at night and think, “Well, that’s embarrassing.” He went not talking to a stranger and he’s hiding his head. I’m like, “Come on man, make me look good.” And even sports, I can remember Dave and I got married and people are like, “Oh, your kids are going to be so athletic,” and we’re going too, we’re secretly saying, “Oh man, our kids are going to be unbelievable.” And so that son didn’t care about anything sports. He’s playing baseball sitting down in the outfield picking daisies. That wasn’t him. That was somebody else. But still, I’m like, “Come on, man.” And that’s that whole performance thing. And I remember God just getting a hold of my heart asking me, what do you care about what other people are thinking?

(09:46):

And it was so convicting and I thought, “Man, I’ve got a pride thing.”

Bruce (09:50):

I had the same thing but opposite. Sometimes our oldest will join the conversation, we’ll have an adults’ table. Kids are in there, but she’ll come to the adult table and then she’s talking and talking and I’m just like, “Okay,” I’ll try to—

Maria (10:03):

I do same thing.

Bruce (10:03):

“Okay, that’s enough.”

Ann (10:04):

She could talk to adults all day long and she’s good at it, you guys,

Bruce (10:07):

But I’m embarrassed, like, “Okay, she’s taking up too much of the conversation.” But then later someone will come up to me, “It was so nice having your daughter engaged in the conversation.” I’m like, “Oh yeah.” But my concern wasn’t like, oh—it was just, it was how it’s reflecting on me.

Ann (10:23):

Yeah. Okay, Dave, confession time.

Dave (10:26):

Oh, let’s move on. Let’s go to the next one. I think mine is/was performance.

Ann (10:34):

Really? I feel like you’re so much better at that than I am.

Dave (10:37):

I was better than you, but I mean, compared to you, I was less because her family—and they’re great. They’re awesome. Her dad was my coach. Her brother’s my center. I’m the quarterback. They were very athletic. And her dad’s dream was they’d all be college coaches together, all four of the kids, and that was a legit dream. And then when it didn’t happen, he blew up. But their family was, every conversation was about how well they did. It was every conversation.

Ann (11:06):

Or how poor we did.

Dave (11:07):

Yeah, I mean, you sit at a dinner table, and it was all about athletics and who did good and who didn’t.

Ann (11:11):

If we’re better than everybody.

Dave (11:12):

So it was really performance. So I thought I don’t really have that. My mom celebrated the biggest game of my high school career. I went two for 12 with two interceptions against the other state rival and 12,000 people. And she’s like, “You were amazing tonight.” I’m like, “Mom, I lost the game.” “Oh, you were so”— I mean, I never had this pressure. She really had it. So I felt like I didn’t put that on our kids because I really was like—it’s literally, it doesn’t matter. Just have fun. I didn’t think it counted until high school.

(11:43):

And I was around a lot of other dads and coaches that don’t agree with that. They think it matters when you’re seven and eight. So I didn’t think I had it, but I still think underneath—I remember one of our sons when he was playing high school football, they had summer workouts, and I wasn’t a coach yet. This was a year before I started coaching. I walk over toward the end to just pick them up or something, and they’re running like 800. So two times around the football field on the track, and I see this kid passed out. He’s only guy, they’re all coming in, they’re just dead tired. And there’s this guy flopped on the track. I’m like—

Ann (12:16):

On his back?

Dave (12:17):

He’s like, “Oh, I can’t be”—he’s on the track. I’m like, “What a loser.” I mean, you do not, you finish. It’s my son. I walk up, I’m like, “Oh my goodness.” I’m like, “Get up! Get up!” He’s like, “Dad, I”— “Get up!” And I was like, I think that’s reflecting on me. And he was just dead. And he actually was a great athlete, had a lot of fun, but it was like there’s the idol. Idols are revealed, I think in your emotions. What prompts you immediately to anger or frustration or anxiety that’s almost like, “I can’t stop it”? That’s probably something more important than you realize. Maybe replacing God, right?

Bruce:

Yeah.

Ann (13:00):

Well, Bruce, you found an article.

Bruce (13:02):

Yeah, that’s where that quote came from, Dan Allender.

Ann (13:04):

The article was called, When Kids Won’t Bow To Your Idols. Why did that stick out in your mind? Because you’re the one that found it.

Bruce (13:11):

Yeah, because I think that’s what causes me to sin and sin towards them and be so harsh with them is like, how dare you not bend your knee—

Ann (13:23):

—to my idol.

Bruce (13:23):

—pretty much to me, which probably ultimately is me—my happiness, my convenience. She talks about—man, she got real close to home and this when she was talking about getting angry at her kids at bedtime because all she wants to do is go watch Netflix and eat ice cream and the kid is having a problem. And it’s just like that. You’re intruding on my territory now kid. And I think you tell the kids sometimes idols are whatever you’re willing to sin to get.

Ann (13:57):

Oh, talk about that, Maria. What do you mean by that?

Bruce (14:00):

I will sin to get my convenience or to get my way. I am going to lash out at you in anger.

Maria (14:08):

Yeah. I say if you’re willing to sin in order to get that thing, then that means that’s an idol in your heart. And then the other thing I say is we talk about first place. What’s first place in your heart? If you’re sinning because you can’t have something or something’s not going the way you want it, that means that’s so important that that has become first place in your heart.

Ann (14:29):

Can you give an example that you remember about the girls?

Maria (14:31):

So video games is one for our oldest. So it’s like if you are having a rotten attitude or you’re pitching a fit, whatever it is, if you’re sinning in order—

Dave (14:43):

I mean, it could even be lying.

Maria (14:44):

—in order to get—

Dave (14:45):

“I haven’t played two hours; I’ve only played 10 minutes.” You’re lying to play longer.

Maria (14:50):

Or if you are sinning because you can’t have it, that’s become an idol for you. And that probably means we need to take a break.

Ann (14:58):

What do they say when you say that?

Maria (15:01):

I mean, they agree or they go with it. They don’t—

Bruce (15:04):

I’m thinking at one time—

Maria (15:05):

I think they understand.

Bruce (15:06):

It was really sweet with—so our middle one needed a new bike and we could get a—usually we just get them at Goodwill, a bike. But the scholarship—in Florida, if you homeschool, you get certain scholarship and it covers bikes. So we’re like, “Oh, we’re going to get a new bike” for Gloria—no, for Estelle. And Estelle was like, “I like my bike. I don’t need a new bike.” So we’re like—

Maria (15:32):

“Are you sure?” I asked her, “Are you sure you don’t want a brand-new bike?” And she’s like, “No, I like my bike.”

Bruce (15:38):

And Estelle didn’t realize when she was saying, “I don’t want a new bike,” she thought she was just going to get a new Goodwill bike. So when she saw that Glo got a new bike—

Maria (15:46):

A brand-new shiny bike.

Bruce (15:47):

—she had so much regret and she was so jealous. But it was sweet because she was crying, but she didn’t want to make Glo feel bad. But I went to her, she’s like, “I am just so jealous.”

Ann (16:00):

Oh, she could name it.

Bruce (16:01):

Yeah, and she was just so upset. So it was kind of sweet. Yeah, she’s coveting or whatever. So that was probably sin, but she could recognize it and she was struggling with it. It was really sweet.

Dave:

Did you ever get her the bike?

Maria (16:13):

She did get a new bike later on because hers—

Bruce (16:16):

I think hers broke or something.

Maria (16:17):

—busted a tire or something.

Bruce (16:18):

So she got a brand-new bike.

Maria (16:19):

She got a new one too.

Ann (16:20):

But still, that was a good lesson.

Maria (16:21):

But in that moment, I was having an issue. It was at the end of the day, and I had checked and double checked with her about the new bike, and then she still had a meltdown about it. And I was just like, “You got to get over it.”

Ann:

That’s hard.

Maria:

He was able to be nice to her about it, but I was just in that moment, “I checked and double checked, and you said you did not want a new bike. I gave you the opportunity. You said no.”

Bruce:

“I didn’t know it was brand new. I thought new to me.”

Dave (16:50):

I mean, I wonder if an idol for parents and maybe it’s Americans in general, is comfort.

Maria (16:57):

Yes.

Dave (16:58):

I remember being in Africa one-time, years ago and we’re out in the bush and we’re preaching at churches or sometimes in little sort of homes, and they’re little, tiny huts, and mosquitoes and bugs are everywhere, and they’re just—it’s so hot. And all of us Americans are basically freaking out, “How can you exist in this?” And this is their world. And we’re like, “We care so much about comfort. We’re used to air conditioning. We’re used to no bugs.”

(17:29):

And it’s like, look at this. And I think I’ll never forget this story in a book, and it was about bedtime. And so I think at bedtime we want comfort. We don’t want chaos. And it seems like that’s when they’re running around the room and you’re just like—you’re fried and it’s control and it’s comfort. And this guy was talking about—I remember his daughter’s name is Malory. How do I remember that? Because I’ll never forget this story. And he says, “I’m trying to get the girls to bed. My wife’s gone. It’s just me and two or three daughters. And Malory just jumps out of the bathtub and starts running around going ‘De da day.’” And he’s like, “Malory, get over here and dry off.” “De da day.” She wouldn’t stop. And he’s like, “So then she starts doing a De da day dance.” And he goes, “I’m yelling at her.” And he’s like, “Come on, you got to stop the De da day dance. We got to get ready for bed.” And she goes, “Why?” And he writes in this book, he goes, “I actually had no good answer. The only answer is I don’t want—I want this to go quicker than you want to go.”

Ann:

I want to go downstairs and watch Netflix.

Bruce:

Yeah, and eat some ice cream.

Maria (18:30):

I’m exhausted and you’re encroaching on my me time.

Dave (18:32):

Exactly. And so the author basically just said, “I realized, you know what? Sometimes you just got to do the De da day dance.” And he goes, “I got up and I did it with her.” And they call it the De da day—anyway, I’ll never forget that story because that’s so many of us parents. It’s like sometimes you need to do the de da day dance and forget the comfort and the chaos is just the way it’s going to be. You’re going to be here someday.

Bruce (18:54):

Yep.

Dave (18:54):

And you’re going to be, there’s no kids in our house. We have to go to their house to play with the grandkids. We’re just sitting there looking at each other. There’s nothing but comfort. It’s neat all the time. And when they come over, you’re like, they just wrecked our house and then they left. I mean, someday it’s going to be over. So in some ways seize the day. But I get it. I know.

Bruce (19:11):

But that hits home hard. And I observed a family where the dad was, could be demanding at times, and I saw how other people in the family were walking on eggshells, trying not to make him angry. And I remarked to Maria afterwards, I was like, “I don’t want that to characterize our home. I don’t want to see you guys and the girls walking on eggshells because I’m not getting my way.” And then it was like that day or the next day, she said, she came up to me—I got home from work and the house looked like four girls lived there, four little girls—

Ann (19:49):

Who are being homeschooled.

Bruce:

—who are being homeschooled.

Maria:

It actually didn’t look bad because I usually try to pick up before he gets home.

Bruce (19:54):

But everything, not everything was in its place. So I get home and I’m cleaning up. I’m not yelling at anybody, but I’m clearly not happy either. So I’m picking up this, picking up that, and then Maria comes up to me, she’s like, “Hey, Estelle just came up to me and said, ‘I want to ask Daddy to play video games but I’m afraid he’ll get mad at me.’” And I was just like, “Uh, there she is walking on eggshells, doesn’t want to make me mad.”

Maria (20:21):

Well, he goes into tidy mode, which—

Ann:

Oh, believe me, Bruce, I have tidy mode.

Maria:

—he’s going around the house picking up, and it’s like—he’s not yelling at anybody, but you can tell that there’s a tension.

Ann:

It’s exasperating.

Bruce (20:34):

It’s like Nate Bargatze when he talks about, “Look, my wife mows the lawn, which I don’t mind. I don’t love the attitude she does it in or the tone she does it in,” and that’s how it is. I’ll clean, but somehow, I’m communicating I’m not happy about this even though I’m not like raging.

(20:49):

But it’s like clear Dad’s not happy. So that was convicting of like, “Oh, I’m doing the very thing I just told you I don’t want to characterize our home.”

Dave (20:56):

It’s almost like she said out loud, “I don’t want to poke Dad’s idol.”

Bruce (21:00):

Yeah, right.

Dave (21:02):

I see he’s bowing to it.

Bruce (21:03):

And I don’t want to go bow down to it with him, but that’s going to make him mad.

Ann (21:08):

Here’s the core idea is the primary source of parental anger isn’t always a child’s misbehavior, but their refusal to conform to a parent’s personal idol. Things like the need for control, the need for success, convenience, or a good reputation. Those are all the things we just talked about. So as a listener, we’re asking you even right now as you’ve been listening, is God bringing up an idol or something that has just been bothering you? And could you call it that?—an idol. Or what do we do instead of saying it’s an idol? Do we blame our kids for it? My kids are just messy or obnoxious or whatever. What do you guys think?

Maria (21:53):

That’s an interesting way to frame it. I didn’t think of that. I’m blaming the kids for it, but it’s actually my idol, huh.

Bruce (21:58):

Right. Yeah, they didn’t carve it.

Maria (22:00):

Yeah.

Bruce (22:03):

You did.

Ann:

You did.

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Dave (22:29):

I’m in here. I’m in your corner.

Ann (22:30):

In my corner. In my corner. These are the things that are truly us.

Dave (22:40):

I always think whenever I think about or talk about idols, I think of Tim Keller’s sort of definition. Idols, good things in your life aren’t bad unless they become the ultimate,

Bruce (22:53):

Right.

Dave (22:54):

If this job goes away, it’s a bad thing, but if it destroys your life, it was too important. I mean, one of the things she mentioned in this article how to know is your emotions, which we’ve been talking about.

Ann (23:05):

Oh, how to spot your idols, yeah.

Dave (23:07):

But also your successes. What do you celebrate in your home? Which is nothing wrong with that, but could it be way too important? We live in a day and age where athletic success for our kids is an idol in so many ways. And people are missing church. They’re missing small groups, everything—

Ann (23:29):

School, grades, academics.

Dave (23:32):

—for that. I mean, we lived in that day, our son went all the way to the NFL, but it can become way too important.

Ann (23:39):

When we asked our kids, they were probably elementary school and middle school, what do you think our greatest values are as a family? And they said sports.

Dave (23:48):

They didn’t even blink, sports.

Ann (23:49):

“Sports, well of course, duh.” And we’re like, where’s Jesus in the whole thing? We’re in the ministry for goodness’ sake, sports.

Bruce (23:57):

Well, okay, so this is where I can get frustrated though. I’ve heard people say, be careful of always affirming the things your kids do. Then they think your love is based on what they do. But then you’re thinking, I feel like I can’t win because it’s like I’m trying to be a good parent and encourage them. But if you’re always just encouraging, “Hey, you did so good. What a great throw.” Or “Hey, you got an A+. Way to go.” Okay. Then I’ve heard like, oh, that can be bad too.

Ann (24:25):

You got a D-, way to go.

Bruce (24:27):

Yeah.

Ann (24:28):

But are you praising the effort?

Bruce (24:29):

The effort, I think what their alternative was like, hey, praise their generosity or—

Ann (24:36):

Their character qualities.

Bruce (24:38):

But then is that saying that’s why I love you. I don’t know. I get frustrated. I want to do it right.

Maria (24:44):

I think it’s having a balance.

Ann (24:46):

Yeah, me too.

Bruce (24:47):

Yeah.

Ann (24:48):

I know a girl that I know her parents never said anything about her outward beauty ever. Didn’t say she was beautiful, pretty nothing.

Dave (24:56):

Probably trying to be careful.

Bruce (24:57):

Right.

Ann (24:58):

They’re trying to be careful.

Bruce (24:58):

Exactly. You don’t want them to just think that’s all there is to you.

Ann (25:00):

I don’t want them to think that that’s her. That’s going to be her idol. Like, oh, it’s all about looks and if I always tell her she’s beautiful

Dave (25:06):

How did that go for her?

Bruce:

So then you swing the pendulum the wrong way, too far the other way.

Ann (25:09):

Terrible. She felt like I’m ugly. My parents never ever say anything. So it’s not that you’re focusing on that, that that’s all you’re looking at for her, but it is something that it’s balanced.

Maria (25:21):

Yeah. Well, in that example, I like to tell them they’re beautiful. Just when they strike me as being beautiful, not necessarily—

Ann:

—externally.

Maria:

I’ll tell them they’re beautiful sometimes when they’ve dressed up for Daddy/daughter night or on a Sunday or whatever. But I tell them they’re beautiful at other times too. So they know it’s not just based on what you’re wearing and how you did your hair or whatever.

Ann (25:42):

I think that’s scriptural actually.

Dave (25:44):

So what do you do with your idols when you realize, “Wow, I think I have an idol”? How do you lay it down? Tell us, oh pros over there.

Bruce:

Well, let me just—

Maria (25:56):

I think it takes a lot of prayer and I mean, recognizing it is the first thing in this season for me, it’s been a big wake up call for how much of an idol. I think I knew sleep was an idol for me, but how much of an idol is sleep?

Dave (26:13):

Sleep is a necessity.

Bruce (26:14):

Right because that’s a good thing. Right, that’s a good thing.

Ann (26:15):

You need it to survive.

Maria:

Yes, but also—

Bruce (26:18):

If you’ll sin either without it or to get it.

Maria (26:20):

And when it causes so much anxiety and panic, it reveals a lack of faith and trust in the goodness of God. Having a moment, I don’t know. You just have to be real with yourself in the moments when you see your weakness and feel your weakness and just give it to the Lord, talk to the Lord about it in the middle of the night.

Ann:

That’s good.

Dave (26:43):

I mean, you’ve got moms and dads listening. They’re living right where you guys are living. They’re like, “Are you saying my need for sleep is an idol?”

Ann (26:51):

Or is it a necessity?

Maria:

I mean, it’s both mean.

Bruce:

It can be.

Ann:

When she says how to spot your idols, she says, in terms of your emotions, she says, trace your strongest negative feelings back to what desire is being threatened. That’s kind of what you’re dealing with.

Maria (27:09):

I mean, for example, food is a necessity, but food can also be an idol.

Ann (27:13):

Yeah. Good things can be idols. Our kids can be our idols.

Maria (27:17):

I was thinking on the drive over here about, have you guys ever seen this show Alone?

Ann (27:22):

No, but I’ve heard about it.

Maria (27:23):

Where they drop these people off in the wilderness and they have to survive and the last man standing wins a cash prize.

Bruce (27:27):

And they’re like three miles apart each. So they’re all alone.

Dave (27:30):

That sounds like a fascinating show film.

Bruce:

They film themselves. There’s not a camera crew.

Maria (27:33):

Very fascinating.

Ann:

Oh, they’re filming themselves, so it’s dangerous.

Maria:

They’re filming themselves so they’re literally alone. And basically—

Bruce (27:40):

They have a cell phone though when they tap out.

Maria (27:41):

Basically what it turns into is who can starve the longest because they have to forage and hunt their own food.

Dave (27:48):

How long do they go?

Maria (27:49):

Months.

Bruce (27:50):

50 days up to a hundred. One guy made it over a hundred. You don’t know—

Dave:

Your point is what?

Bruce:

You don’t know how many people are left? It’s crazy.

Dave:

Whoa.

Maria (28:01):

I was thinking about—

Dave:

So this is parenting. Is that what you’re saying?

Bruce (28:03):

Yeah. Yeah. Where are you going with this?

Maria (28:06):

If I could finish.

Bruce (28:08):

Whoa, shots fired.

Maria (28:10):

What I was thinking about on the way here was about the show on a particular season, there was a guy who was, a lot of times it’s a challenge for them to get food. Some people bow out really early, they’re not able to get enough food. And there was a guy on one of the seasons who had a lot of food, but he still ended up getting eliminated because he had so much food in his stored, but he wouldn’t eat it because he was in this mindset of scarcity and he just hoarded it and didn’t end up eating enough on the regular to be able to maintain his calories, his energy.

Bruce (28:48):

Dried fish.

Maria (28:49):

His physical state was so bad they had to eliminate him because he was starving.

Ann (28:53):

And yet he had an abundance.

Maria (28:54):

Yet he had an abundance. And so I was thinking about that on the way here, thinking we can get so fixated on the idol that we are actually doing damage to ourselves instead of—

Ann:

Living.

Bruce (29:07):

Well, and we have—wow. That’s good, Maria. I mean, we have an abundance in the Lord. When you said, well, you said something about desires not being met or something, it’s like that’s how you kill an idol.

Ann (29:19):

The desire is being threatened.

Bruce (29:20):

That’s how you kill the idol, is you find your joy and your desires met in Jesus.

Ann (29:25):

Through Jesus.

Bruce (29:26):

And He supplies it all. And then there’s no need. You’re secure in Him. I mean, so much of it is an insecurity of I’m going to lose my idol. I have to grip onto it so tight.

Maria:

Right, exactly.

Ann (29:33):

Well, it’s interesting, as I’ve worked with women over the years in Bible studies and small groups, I’ll say to them, what is the hardest thing for you to surrender to Jesus? Or I’ll ask this too, what’s the thing you worry about the most? Almost every time—and these are all moms—my kids. I worry about them the most. And it’s the hardest thing for me to surrender.

(29:55):

Because I don’t know if I trust that God is good. And so even with that, with idols, it could be the thing we worry about the most, the thing we hold on to the most and the thing that we try to take control of the most, because when we’re fearful, we tend to get into control and not live in the abundance that God’s given us. When Jesus says, “I came that you might have life and might have it to the full,” that’s where He wants us to live.

Bruce (30:20):

What is it in Romans 8 that says, how will he who didn’t spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, not with him, give us all things. And so it’s taken, it’s looking to the cross. I mean, the same God who didn’t spare his own son, you think he’s not going to provide for every need that you have. And so Maria, that’s an awesome illustration.

Ann (30:43):

What do you think the application is to parents as they’re listening? Single moms?

Dave (30:47):

That’s it.

Ann (30:49):

What?

Dave:

What Bruce just said.

Ann:

Keep your eyes on Jesus.

Maria:

Yes.

Bruce (30:52):

Well, and I was thinking too when you said how do you get rid of your idols? I mean, I think what we were kind of saying is we are our own idol. I mean, at the end of the day. And so the parenting verse that you said years ago is, unless—I think your sister sent you this—unless the seed falls to the ground and dies, it bears no fruit. And that’s what we’re called to. And I mean, that’s the Christian life, not just as parenting.

Maria (31:14):

It’s a funny story.

Ann:

Constant surrender.

Maria (31:16):

A funny story because we had a friend who was writing a parenting book and she asked Evangel and my sister for scripture, and my sister said that one. And the lady was like, “Oh, that’s not exactly what I’m saying. That’s not really encouraging.” But actually it is.

Bruce (31:30):

Take up your cross—

Maria (31:31):

When you’re in those moments where you feel like you’re dying because you’re not getting enough sleep, you’re exhausted, you’re stretched thin, you’re not getting any time to yourself ever, the house is a disaster, whatever—you don’t look like you thought you wanted to look because you’ve had kids. Doesn’t matter, you have Jesus.

Ann (31:52):

He’s with me. He’s with me. He’s with me.

Dave (31:54):

And I don’t know if I’d add this or not. You can edit it out, but I think in some ways it’s lower or change the expectations too of your kids, especially in the little toddler ages. Because as a grandparent, sometimes when I’m with our kids with the grandkids—and again, I haven’t been there all day, so I don’t know what mom’s been through all day, but she’s tired. She’s tired and one of their kids will pull something out of the pantry and she’s like, “Oh, what”— And I just want to go, “What do you expect? This is exactly what’s going to happen all day long,” but I’m not living in her life. But there is that expectation that’s not going to happen today. Of course, it’s going to happen today. Whereas somebody on the outside that’s been there, you’re just expect the worst and when it’s better—

Maria:

That’s true.

Dave:

—okay, rather than expect the best, it’s not going to ever go that way.

Bruce (32:42):

That’s what Brant Hansen said when you guys had him on for Unoffendable. He’s like, people that are like, I can’t believe my mom did that again. He’s like, well, you better start believing it. That’s just how people are and same thing with kids.

Ann (32:54):

And it’s why we need Jesus.

Bruce (32:55):

Yeah. I can’t believe they did. Well, they’re kids. Believe it. And then—yeah, that’s great advice.

Ann (33:01):

That is good. Well guys, it’s always great to have Bruce and Maria Goff in the studio.

Bruce:

Thank you for the free counseling. Appreciate it.

Ann:

You counseled a lot of us. Thanks.

Hey, thanks for watching and if you liked this episode—

Dave (33:15):

You better like it.

Ann (33:15):

—just hit that like button.

Dave (33:16):

And we’d like you to subscribe. So all you got to do is go down and hit the subscribe—I can’t say the word subscribe. Hit the subscribe button. I don’t think I can say this word.

Ann:

Like and subscribe.

Dave:

Look at that. You say it so easy. Subscribe. There it goes.

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